Comments on: Starting from Scratch – Part 1 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/ Algorithms, for the heck of it Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:07:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: lorg http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/#comment-136 lorg Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:51:08 +0000 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/?p=111#comment-136 Shay & Ilan: Well, the guy specifically asked me to teach him C. I explained a little about different languages, but he wanted to learn C, which I don't consider a bad thing: C is not a bad language to start from. Regarding SICP: I actually bought this book when I took Intro to computer science in Tel Aviv University. At the time I was already proficient with C and C++, and I remember the course about scheme teaching me new things, and mostly new ways to think about programming. I then saw someone with the book, took a peek inside, liked what I saw and decided to buy it. Still, I don't think teaching someone scheme is the right way to go if his final objective is to get a good programming job. Shay & Ilan:
Well, the guy specifically asked me to teach him C. I explained a little about different languages, but he wanted to learn C, which I don’t consider a bad thing: C is not a bad language to start from.

Regarding SICP:
I actually bought this book when I took Intro to computer science in Tel Aviv University. At the time I was already proficient with C and C++, and I remember the course about scheme teaching me new things, and mostly new ways to think about programming. I then saw someone with the book, took a peek inside, liked what I saw and decided to buy it.

Still, I don’t think teaching someone scheme is the right way to go if his final objective is to get a good programming job.

]]> By: Shay Elkin http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/#comment-135 Shay Elkin Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:22:12 +0000 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/?p=111#comment-135 A friend recently asked me for a good JavaScript book, as she'd like to learn it. I'd usually recommend <a href="http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517748/" rel="nofollow">Crockford's book</a>, but it is written for readers that can already code, and I know she does not. Searching for the perfect book (I'm yet to find it,) it dawned on me why <a href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/" rel="nofollow">SICP</a> is such a good book. SICP teaches you Scheme, but that's a side effect. What it really does, it teache you programming. And by using Scheme, it makes sure you learn more sense than syntax. Even if you don't subscribe to the functional programming school of thought, any didactic experience will tell you C is horrible as a first programming language, since it requires much bookkeeping, which isn't always easy for an experienced programmer, let alone for a beginner (and as you wrote, the boilerplate is scary, even if you tell her to ignore it.) A garbage collected, dynamic, and weak-typed language is so much nicer as a first language, since it doesn't bother you with the bookkeeping C has. SICP did gain some infamousy as the CS breaking bench, but I believe that this is due to culture shock from being a freshmen, combined with the speed at which it is usually taught. Read at a reasonable pace, SICP is a ultimate learn-how-to-program book: it only bothers you with details when you need them, provide a good balance between examples and definitions. In fact, going back and over SICP makes me want to try and translate the first couple of chapters to JS for my friend. A friend recently asked me for a good JavaScript book, as she’d like to learn it. I’d usually recommend Crockford’s book, but it is written for readers that can already code, and I know she does not. Searching for the perfect book (I’m yet to find it,) it dawned on me why SICP is such a good book.

SICP teaches you Scheme, but that’s a side effect. What it really does, it teache you programming. And by using Scheme, it makes sure you learn more sense than syntax. Even if you don’t subscribe to the functional programming school of thought, any didactic experience will tell you C is horrible as a first programming language, since it requires much bookkeeping, which isn’t always easy for an experienced programmer, let alone for a beginner (and as you wrote, the boilerplate is scary, even if you tell her to ignore it.) A garbage collected, dynamic, and weak-typed language is so much nicer as a first language, since it doesn’t bother you with the bookkeeping C has.

SICP did gain some infamousy as the CS breaking bench, but I believe that this is due to culture shock from being a freshmen, combined with the speed at which it is usually taught. Read at a reasonable pace, SICP is a ultimate learn-how-to-program book: it only bothers you with details when you need them, provide a good balance between examples and definitions. In fact, going back and over SICP makes me want to try and translate the first couple of chapters to JS for my friend.

]]> By: Ilya http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/#comment-134 Ilya Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:22:28 +0000 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/?p=111#comment-134 Interesting post! Interesting post!

]]> By: Ilan http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/#comment-133 Ilan Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:36:52 +0000 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/?p=111#comment-133 Yeah, the effect is striking, from my experience, too. I used to have my students write pseudo-code instead of C (after letting them flounder for quite a few minutes, to make the effect more pronounced ;o) -- in Hebrew, even -- and then the trivial translation to C. Eg, exercise with printing Pascal's triangle. BTW, K&R did a cute quick introduction. Recommended. But but, begs the obvious question, given your friend can't yet think algorithmically, why C? Why not begin with Python? Seriously. Anyway, see you at the sprint! In just three days! ;o) Yeah, the effect is striking, from my experience, too. I used to have my students write pseudo-code instead of C (after letting them flounder for quite a few minutes, to make the effect more pronounced ;o) — in Hebrew, even — and then the trivial translation to C.
Eg, exercise with printing Pascal’s triangle.

BTW, K&R did a cute quick introduction. Recommended.

But but, begs the obvious question, given your friend can’t yet think algorithmically, why C? Why not begin with Python? Seriously.

Anyway, see you at the sprint! In just three days!
;o)

]]> By: Erez http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/programming/starting-from-scratch-part-1/#comment-132 Erez Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:06:49 +0000 http://www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/?p=111#comment-132 If you can't explain something to yourself, you have no chance of explaining it to a computer. Writing code is just the projection of an internal model, and the hardest part of programming is building that model. If you can’t explain something to yourself, you have no chance of explaining it to a computer.
Writing code is just the projection of an internal model, and the hardest part of programming is building that model.

]]>